Dr. Vasant Lad: I listened to your talk on YouTube, I think you’re talking Ayurved in a different language. Sadhguru: I’ve read only one Veda, sir, that is this one (Referring to oneself). Dr. Vasant Lad: Inner exploration is very important.
That is the place where Ayurved is born. Instrumental music… Time 00:23 Sadhguru: Namaskaram all of you.
Dr. Vasant Lad: Namaskaram. Sadhguru: Everybody looks like a bank robber, I don’t know who are (Sounds like – there?) (Laughter). Dr.
Vasant Lad: So, the Ayurprana is doing great work in the field of Ayurved.
Sadhguru: Hmm. Dr. Vasant Lad: They create Ayurvedic herbal product. We bring raw material from India, organically grown, no chemical pesticides, no chemical fertilizer.
Then we test it here, see that there are no toxic heavy metals, arsenic, mercury, lead and such a good work. They create Choorana which is powder form, Siddhatailam – medicated oil, Siddhaghritam – medicated ghee, Gutika Vatika tablet. And by this Banyan Botanical and Ayurprana, they’re doing very good work in the field of Ayurved and so that Ayurved is becoming quite popular in the Western world, both in America, England, Germany. And amazing thing, there is so much hunger for Ayurvedic clinical approach. So I teach them Nadi Pariksha and in Nadi Pariksha, the basic Mandookagati, Sarpagati, Lavakagati, Tittagati, Hamsagati different Gatis are there.
And with the grace of God, I’m a good artist, I draw the picture of the pulse, how it looks. Sadhguru: Mhmm. Dr. Vasant Lad: And we are doing webinars and each Friday some new subject, new topic, that how to determine Prakruti through the pulse, how to do the assessment of Vikruti, the present _____ (Unclear) status of the Dosha. Then through the pulse we can understand the Manas Prakruti, Manas Vikruti, Sub-doshas, Prana, Vyan, Udan, Saman, all these Sub-doshas.
And boy, there is so much demand. People love that and to teach this subject in zooming or on zooming is quite an art. We have two, three cameras where I go near the camera, and I just say, “This is Vaat Pregam, Adya, Madhya, Antya Nadi; Adya Nadi – Vaata, Madhya Naadi – Pitta, Antya Nadi – Kapha. And then slowly the spike under each finger – Vata, Pitta, Kapha, Vata, Pitta, Kapha, and when we go deep, Niguda Nadi, Prakruti Pradarshane, Uttanatu Vikriuta.
(Speaks in Sanskrit – not transcribed), hold it, hold it, leave it, hold it and then you will come to that state, that spike.
And you have to just pay attention to the Kapha Spike, Pitta Spike, Vata Spike. Under these three finger, how many Vaata Spike, how many Pitta Spike you get and based upon that you can determine your Prakruti – the deep level, the seventh level is Prakruti. And Prakruti is your unique genetic code. It is your blueprint. It is still there, pulsating, throbbing under your radial artery.
And amazing, people love it. So this work, Ayurprana is doing quite a fantastic work in the field of Ayurved. Sadhguru: Mhmm. Dr. Vasant Lad: And a couple of years ago I was in Coimbatore also.
Time 04:03 Sadhguru: Is that so? Dr. Vasant Lad: That Doctor…
Sadhguru: Krishna… Krishna Kumar _____ (Unclear). Dr.
Vasant Lad: Krishna Kumarji, Krishna Kumarji and Ram Kumar.
They invited me to teach Ayurvedic art of… See, this is.
.. This is a lost art. No school teaches this ancient Vedic art of pulse assessment. And Krishna Kumarji, he loved it.
He’s such a holy person, and they have big school there in Vaidyagraman, and they do Panchakarma there. And there were about two hundred Ayurvedic doctors. They come there to receive this art of reading the pulse. It is art, but it is a science. And in Ayurved, science and art can go together.
Sadhguru: It is just that everything is put through the same microscope today. Dr. Vasant Lad: Correct. Sadhguru: So (Laughs)..
. If you say, “I love somebody,” they will check your blood and prove to you that you don’t. Dr. Vasant Lad: Correct (Both Laugh). Sadhguru: So all the subtler aspects of life.
See, the… the grosser aspects of life manifest strongly. Studying them is one way.
The subtler aspects of life, their manifestation is subtle.
Dr. Vasant Lad: Yeah, absolutely. Sadhguru: So for everything if you say, “Show me where it is,” you cannot..
. I cannot even show you the air that you breathe. Dr. Vasant Lad: Correct. Sadhguru: Nobody can prove that you’re alive, actually.
There is no proof that there is life here. The heart is beating but time will come when they will make the dead body’s heart beat. It’s not far away, I’m saying they can pump (Overlapping conversation) the blood, they make it work.
So there is no proof that we’re alive either. So in a way, this.
.. for everything, gross physical proof, physical proof, will lead to a point where – it’s already happening – where life is not valuable, only the structures that we build is valuable. The fundamental life itself is not valuable. We’re forgetting everything else that we’ve built, the house that we built is only an accessory to our life.
The clothes that we wear is only an accessory to our life but these things have become bigger than life itself (Laughter). Dr. Vasant Lad: Absolutely. Sadhguru: (Laughs) That’s the..
. So in a culture and atmosphere like that right now, it needs to get to its peak and go down. Till then, it’s hard to convince people about the subtler dimensions.
Beginning to happen but still it’s not mainstream (Laughs). Time 07:01 Dr.
Vasant Lad: That’s beautiful. Sadhguru: This is so with Ayurveda, this is so with almost every aspect (Overlapping conversation). And also, there is a…
You know, like we’ve been running a small manufacturing unit on an experimental level and also prod… producing something to keep it going. So our work has been last twenty-five years to bring batch integrity to Ayurvedic medicine.
It’s simply not possible because the leaf that’s plucked in the morning and in the afternoon, it’s different, seasons are different.
We found the batch variations, the efficacy variations are up to eighty percent and if you take any of the top manufacturers, even there it is so. But today people are asking for batch integrity like a chemical process where every batch can be the same in a pharmaceutical. In Ayurveda and Siddha, it depends on the season, it depends on the rainfall, it depends on the sunlight, it depends whether you, you know, did the grinding in the morning or evening (Laughs). You can’t do it whichever way you like.
So we’re doing something very small, very, very small but super effective, but when we try to expand it, it loses its thing.
So we kept it very, very small. Now, there is work going on to build a 1200-bed integrated hospital, which has both Allopathy and this because otherwise, I find…
See, today a whole lot of things are… because of proximity of living populations in cities, most people, as they’re suffering chronic ailments, along with that they have parallel infectious issues. If they are not dealt with.
.. Ayurveda can deal with chronic aspects, something that happens within the body, but where, you know, an external inv…
invasion has happened, you need some chemical warfare. So trying to bring this thing, we’re calling this as Integrated Health Solutions where Siddha, Ayurveda, Allopathy, Unani and Naturopathy, and Yoga – all mixed together.
According to each person, mixing it in the right context. It works well, but at the same time, today we expect everything to become like a concrete science – “This is it, this is it.” It doesn’t work like that.
You have to observe, you have to… You cannot get..
. You know, right now we are working towards that we can get treated on the zoom or we can get treated by a phone, you know? All diagnosis will be done by your phone after some time, that’s where we’re going.
That will not be possible because this needs a certain level of observation. Each person responds to these things differently.
Above all, it takes involvement. Whether health or well-being or spirituality, needs involvement. Right now, we are trying to do everything without involvement, simply, just like that. Everything systemic, no involvement. Well, all the subtler, more tender aspects of life, beautiful aspects of life will disappear if there is no involvement, everything is systemic.
Dr. Vasant Lad: Absolutely, yeah. That’s why this is moving towards integrative approach.
And even in Arizona, there is a integrated medical schools and doing research. So what you say is very true because every science has limitation.
Allopathy is very good for acute emergency but once that emergency is over, then Ayurved can help to take care of chronic ailment like rheumatoid arthritis or gout or even ascites. In all these disorder, Ayurved has a good approach. And slowly, slowly, Ayurved and Allopathy can come together. Ayurved will come to the mainstream but it will take time. Time 11:35 Sadhguru: More a holistic approach is definitely needed.
Individual doctors, a few of them are doing it.
On the larger level, I don’t know where it’ll come together because they’re moving in divergent ways (Both laugh). Dr. Vasant Lad: That’s also possible. Sadhguru: Because the basic thought process of entirely depending upon technology and everything is kind of an absolute.
Well, health is not an absolute thing. You may be healthy now, in the next five minutes you may not be. Dr. Vasant Lad: Yeah, it is relative (Laughs). Sadhguru: It.
.. it just varies. It’s..
. it’s the nature of how life happens. So these absolute things about you tested my blood in the morning and everything is fine with me but I may be dead by the evening. So many people do, I’m saying (Laughs). So, this absolutism needs to go and we need to look at life with a more holistic and a more gentler approach which (Laughs) needs lot of cultivation and new kind of civilization.
When I say a new kind of civilization, right now, our idea of civilization is that we dominate everybody and we’re civilized (Laughs). No, idea of civilization is, there is no need to dominate anyone – that is civilization. Dr. Vasant Lad: That is correct. Yes.
Sadhguru: But unfortunately, we think the other way round. When Mahatma Gandhi was asked by someone, “What do you think about the western civilization?” He said, “It’s a good idea” (Laughter). This is not me, it’s him (Laughter). Because we are misunderstanding domination as civilization.
The fundamental of civilization is, there is no need to dominate anyone. It doesn’t matter somebody is weak, somebody is strong, somebody is young, somebody is old, somebody is male, somebody is female. You don’t have to dominate anything, even other life around you, that’s civilization. But right now our idea of civilization is putting a stamp, our stamp on everybody’s face (Laughs). Tell us sir, whatever you can speak about Ayurveda.
I’m an ignorant person on these things (Both laugh), so..
. Time 14:01 Dr. Vasant Lad: No, Ayurved is individual’s medicine. Ayurved treat every individual separately. In modern medicine, they do statistical observation, what is common in hundred people.
Based upon that normality, they try to judge the individual. But Ayurved has a unique approach, in the sense, (Speaks in Sanskrit – not transcribed). So Ayurvedic approach is more Prakruti-Vikruti paradigm. Perhaps one person will handle aspirin because he is Kapha, but Pitta person will be very super-sensitive to the aspirin, it can create severe reaction. So Ayurved says that, to understand the individual and then treat accordingly based upon his Prakruti, Vikruti, environment, lifestyle, all these have great significant value.
And I listened to your talk on YouTube.
I think you’re talking Ayurved in a different language (Sadhguru laughs). So if you say, “I don’t know Ayurved,” that is your greatness but you are talking great principles of life which is coming from ancient Vedic wisdom – Rig Veda and Atharva Veda. So Ayurved is a way of life to live in harmony (Overlapping conversation). Sadhguru: I’ve read only one.
.. I’ve read only Veda, sir, that is this one (Referring to oneself).
I didn’t read anything else. Other four I didn’t read because I’m too illiterate for those things (Laughs).
Dr. Vasant Lad: That is Atma Veda (Both laugh). Atma Veda is the mother of all Veda. Sadhguru: So I don’t have the burden of four Vedas sitting on my head. I respect them but I just read this (Referring to oneself) and it’s kept me busy (Laughs).
Dr. Vasant Lad: Actually, Veda is born in the heart of a Rishi, you know? They observed it, they saw it and they wrote (Sadhguru laughs), you know? Sadhguru: No, that is the thing right now in the world.
If you say.
this happens to me all the time. If I say anything, they ask, “Where is it written?” Then I say, “You write it man.” (Both laugh) Because if you have so much value for written word, you write it. So this whole thing of the so-called educated and scholarship is, if something is valuable, it must be written, not realizing it.
.. it was written by some human being out of his realization or observation or whatever he saw right there. So it’s not that we don’t have respect for the written word but we must understand that unless in every generation we produce human beings who are beyond the written word, who know from where the written word comes, from what basis, then written word will become very dogmatic and become like a dogmatic religion.
People will start enforcing it in a few generations forcefully.
Then they will say, “You’re Pitta, so you must be beheaded.” I’m saying (Both laugh)… I’m saying it’ll happen.
For all kinds of things people have been beheaded, isn’t it? For all sorts of… Dr.
Vasant Lad: All sorts of. Sadhguru: So it’s very important that every generation we create people who understand the basis of the written word, not just the written word. Students will understand the written word but there must be somebody who understands the basis of from where the written word comes, from what basis. So I think Ayurveda needs to do work on that aspect. From Vaidyas who were invested in it completely, their life was invested in it, today they’re going to college for four-and-a-half years and becoming Ayurvedic doctors, tch which I feel is not going to work for this kind of science.
This is not that kind of science.
This needs self-observation beyond anything. How your own system works…
if I don’t know how mine works, how do I know how yours work? I’m saying right now, this is our medical sciences, unfortunately. How many doctors are healthy? It’s a big question mark. Dr.
Vasant Lad: Correct. Correct. Sadhguru: So, it’s very, very important that there has to be a certain…
at least a small percentage of people in every generation who know the basis of the written word. Otherwise, just the written word will create a…
A dogmatic process that it’ll no more be a science, it’ll become like religion.
“What I say is right. If you don’t agree to what I say, you must either die or you must disappear. This (Laughs)…
This has been the approach, unfortunately. So producing those people… People like you with experience, in some way you must inspire people not just to become teachers, instructors, practitioners but to imbibe the fundamentals.
Time 19:06 Dr. Vasant Lad: So that is also basic concept of Ayurved, to know yourself, what you are. Self-knowing is the foundation of life. If I don’t know myself, what is my Prakruti, what is my Vikruti, how thinking happen, how reaction comes, how emotion take place, this whole inner inquiry, inner exploration is very important.
That is the place where Ayurved is born.
Sadhguru: Hmm. How will you live long if you don’t know how to think and feel. Dr. Vasant Lad: Absolutely (Both Laugh). Sadhguru: People are thinking themselves to death.
They’re not working themselves to death. Most of them are thinking themselves to death. Dr. Vasant Lad: Correct. We are really happy.
.. I’m from Maharashtra and my mother tongue is Marathi. And in Marathi, there is a saying, “Sant eti ghara, tochi diwali ani dasara,” means when saintly person like you come home, that is really Diwali (Overlapping conversation). Sadhguru: Dussera you said.
You said Dussera. Right now, it’s Dussera only (Laughter/Applause). Dr. Vasant Lad: Yeah, Dussera (Both Laugh). Because this Diwali and Dussera, the ten doors of perception – Pancha Gnyanendriya, Pancha Karnendriya and all these sensory perception, motor action, if we bring harmony in that, it is really then Dussera.
And Diwali is the festival of light and you are the light and light is within you. So in that way such a highly enlightened Guruji, Sadhguru ji is here, so it is truly Diwali and Dussera because Dussera brings Diwali. So thank you dear, you have done wonderful thing (Applause) (Sadhguru laughs). Sadhguru: I’m from..
. I’m from Mysore. I just forgot to bring my elephants (Laughter). Dussera is a big event in Mysore city (Laughs). Dr.
Vasant Lad: Big event, right. Sadhguru: You know it’s a… every year just going and gathering there for that procession and then so many things happening.
I must tell you, I’ve… Right from my childhood, I’ve been to many Dussera processions. Always my parents took us when we were very young, later on we went.
Then, when I was probably seve… sixteen, seventeen, I thought, “What is there in that procession?” And we get a holiday, we go somewhere else and all that.
One Vijayadashami day, I got involved with a small orphanage where there were about forty, forty-two children were there. (Laughs) These kids, if I just go there to play with them something, they would just come and you know, they… the way they hug you with the desperation is unbelievable.
Then I said… the..
. I asked them, “Dussera is there. Have you seen the procession?” None of them had seen. Some of them were twelve-years-old, many of them were like four, five like this.
So I decided to take all of them. I hired a cargo truck, you know, a small one, small truck like a Matador it used to be called, the little one. So I borrowed this from my friend and put these children in the back, in the cargo deck (Laughs) with an adult and drove it there and found a nice place for them to see. Oh my god! The way they were excited seeing the Maharaja and the elephant and the horses and the procession and the tableau.
Oh my god! I can never forget that. I just sat there and cried that day because these kids, what it meant to them seeing that procession and that’s what it is. And the moment we grow up and the moment we see a few films and some other entertainment, we just forget, you know? We were also excited when we were kids but later on you think, “What is there to see?
I’ve seen it so many times.” But after seeing those children, I thought, “If I’m in Mysore, I must go for the procession, it doesn’t matter what (Laughs),” though there is a lot of jostling, pushing, pulling, everything happening (Laughs).
Time 23:16 Dr. Vasant Lad: Even this Navaratri, the nine days and nights of Durga Ma and every name has a significant value in Ayurved. (Speaks in Sanskrit – not transcribed).
These are the names of the Vanaspati, these are the names of the herbs. And these nine herbs on those particular days when we make a decoction tea and take it, it will get benefit, so that it will bring clarity, it will bring health and happiness. And amazing, it will balance the three Doshas, it will burn the Ama, the toxic morbid metabolic waste in the body. So Ayurved is totally percolated in every so-called ritualistic event.
Sadhguru: No, it kind of merged with the culture.
This is the whole thing. Medicine was not about one doctor knowing about it (Overlapping conversation). It’s about everybody knowing what to do about themselves. As a part of this, we created herbal gardens in over hundred, over a hundred-and-twenty-three villages, herbal gardens. Somebody donated a piece of land and we grow about hundred-and-eight varieties of herbs and in that village, we teach them how to use it.
Anybody can go and pluck for their use. They can’t take it in a bag and go but they can pluck for their use. Simple things, children have a stomachache, they go to the doctor and stand in a queue. Somebody has a headache, they go there. All these things when we were growing up was just handled at home.
Now for everything, there is a consultation, for everything the… First of all going and standing in the clinic like you’re already sick, okay? If your stomach is upset, you’re not sick.
It’s just that, you know, body wants to get rid of something, you’re not sick. But in today’s terms, if you have a little bit of loose stools, you’re sick. If you have a little bit of headache, you’re sick. So we started this whole thing and still it’s going on..
. I mean, the village people are maintaining it. I would like…
like to ask you one question. In the tribal culture in Southern India, plants are identified as masculine and feminine. In Ayurveda is there such a thing that there are feminine herbs and masculine herbs? Dr. Vasant Lad: Yeah, yeah.
Correct, correct, correct. It’s very simple, it is based upon Shiva Swaroday. If you take a leaf, there is a central that is Sushumna. If you hold, because every leaf has a solar side and lunar side.
The shiny side is solar, it takes solar energy and the rough side is lunar.
And if you look at it the plant, the stem, the stem and then there are horizontal lines. If you count those Seera, that is called Seera, if it is even number, so it is a female tree. If it is odd number, it is a male tree.
So male, female can be detected through how many horizontal lines are there on the leaf. This is amazing, very fascinating.
And Rasaveerya Vipak of the plant… Rasa is the taste, Veerya is the energy heating and cooling and Vipaak is the post-digestive effect. And then Prabhav – Achinkya Veerya Prabhaav.
Prabhav is the action on Peelu Paak and Pitar Paak. Peelu Paak is happening at a atomic level to the cell membrane. And Pitar Paak…
Pitar means parents, which is the genetic factor, so the herb goes up to the genetic factor and to the RNA, DNA level. So this is very interesting that male plant and female plant we can detect just by looking at this. Shiva Swaroday is another wonderful science of Suryaswar, Chandraswar, Ida, Pingala, Sushumna and even in every plant, there is a Ida, Pingala, Sushumna. So Ayurved is really talking about male trees, female trees. Now when I came here in Santa Fe, I was teaching Ayurveda in Santa Fe College of Natural Medicine and there were so many.
.. here Native American herbs. Camomile, _____ (Unclear), Angelica, even they use Krishnakamal which is passion flower and passion flower is good for high blood pressure.
And there is a Hawthorn berry.
So we studied and I wrote a book with one of my friend and student, Dr. David Frawley, and we worked together. And that book is…
Time 27:59 Sadhguru: Hmm, I know Dr Frawley. We’ve had a conversation. Dr. Vasant Lad: Yeah, yeah. So we were working together in Santa Fe.
And that book, we have explained Ayurvedic herbs and Native Indian American herb, and they have incredible healing power, but we studied them through Ayurvedic basic principles of Rasa, Veerya, Vipaak and Prabhaav. And that book is very popular now here. So male and female energy, Shiva-Shakti, Purush-Prakriti, Ying-Yang, Ida-Pingala, it is there in the plant. Sadhguru: So how evolved is this herbal treatments in..
. among the Navajo people, for example? How evolved is their treatments of herbal medicines? Dr. Vasant Lad: Yeah, they.
.. These Navajo people, they do the pestle and mortal (mortar?) and they collect the herb and they grind it and make a decoction, make a juice or make a tea, herbal tea, but they have very spiritual ceremony. And then they make a fire ceremony and they bring the herb and they use the herb.
So their approach is very spiritual and along the same line, there is a great spirituality in Ayurved also. Satvam… (Overlapping conversation) Sadhguru: Because they’re calling that.
.. they’re calling their whatever, I don’t know, religious or spiritual leaders as medicine men, so I’m trying to understand (Overlapping conversation) how far is the medicine going? Dr. Vasant Lad: Yeah, medicine man.
They are doing that work and in a group healing they’re doing also in a tent. They call tipi and they make a fire ceremony and the medicine man comes. There is a pipe ceremony. They smoke some herbs and they get intoxicated. It is like _____ (Unclear), something like that.
And it is so spiritual but then it becomes very _____ (Unclear) because they don’t have the logic how it works.
And Ayurved has a logic plus Ayurved has Satvam, Atma, Shareer, both. Sadhguru: No, Ayurveda is from a tropical nation, tropical land where there are hundreds of herbs. Here it’s very meager what’s available. So that’s why I’m.
.. I know they’re…
they have that spirit… spiritual side, hallucinogenic side, all that, but in terms of actual medicine, how many herbs are there? Is it reasonably substantial?
Time 30:23 Dr. Vasant Lad: And you are right because in India, we have 3000, more than that. Here maybe couple of hundred herbs. The herbs here are limited but then we have plenty of herbs. Even Triphala is such a great herb, it cannot grow here, some herbs there.
.. Triphala is becoming worldwide wonderful herb and it is best for balancing Vaata Haritake controls, (Speaks in Sanskrit – not transcribed).
So this Triphala itself is a Rasayan and Triphala itself is a antioxidant enzyme. It removes free radical and it gives longevity of life.
So it is Rasayanam. So there are that much Rasayana herbs may not be here. Sadhguru: No, they’re definitely not there. Except in a tropical nation, it is not available. Even among tropical climates, probably nowhere else there are as many herbs as there are in India because for whatever reason.
.. I mean, I have not found a…
a logical or a scientific reason for this but a handful of soil in Southern India has over 10,000 species of microbes and other things, in a handful of soil. Dr. Vasant Lad: Wow! Amazing! Sadhguru: Nowhere else on the planet it is like that.
Why it is like that, what made it that way, I don’t think anybody has made a study as to why it is so, but the fact is, it is so.
So that much microorganism naturally produces that much variety of life. The people have forgotten that, how we are is very related to the number of plant life, the variety of plant life there is, variety of animal life, the variety of insect, worm life and microbes that are around us, how rich it is – that’s how rich our life is and that’s how evolved and complex and sophisticated our life becomes.
That’s completely forgotten. Everybody’s thinking if you eat so much protein, so much vitamins, so much this, (Dr.
Lad laughs) everything is going to be okay (Laughs). Well, you may grow your muscle and be there but all the subtleties of life may disappear from your life. So in that context, there is very limited amount of herbs here. But I’m sure traditional people somehow should have managed their health with that. Dr.
Vasant Lad: Managed their health, correct. Right. Even in Ayurved, they use Shring Bhasma, the Harina Shringa Bhasma and after certain year, the antler drop out and that Mruga Shringa is used for cardiac complication for diseases like arthritis, rheumatism. So then a thought came, “Why it is so medicinal?” So then they realized that the deer eat weeping willows bark, weeping willows leaves and that weeping willow is the natural source of aspirin.
Then they found… nowadays they are using aspirin to prevent heart attack – it is a blood thinner, it is anti-inflammatory. But in Ayurved, they are using Harina Shringa or Mruga Shringa Bhasma and we can use Mruga Shringa Lepa to the external joint and that will act as an anti-inflammatory, it will relieve the swelling, pain and inflammation much under control.
Time 34:05 Sadhguru: Right now, everywhere videos are going around on the Whatsapp and everything, in the social media that every day if you touch a cow, hug a cow, do this, your… you will get mental and emotional balance (Both laugh). Dr.
Vasant Lad: Absolutely. And that is a special cow or Brahmin cow which has a hump and they say that Brahmin cow hump has a Sushumna Nadi that goes to her udder and that absorbs solar energy and that ghee prepared out of Indian cow doesn’t increase cholesterol.
That’s the beauty of it. But the western cow who has a flat back, it is like modified buffalo. Yeah (Few laugh).
And this they have big udder and that milk from the western cow is rich in cholesterol and person can get heart attack. So the… Sadhguru: I would like to ask you one thing.
Right now, in Kerala people are claiming and we don’t know how much of it is true but I know some of it is true. People have preserved ghee in the earth. They buried it in the earth and kept it for over hundred years and it seems this ghee has tremendous healing possibilities.
Dr. Vasant Lad: Absolutely.
Sadhguru: Can you say something about… Dr. Vasant Lad: Yeah, yeah.
That is called Shata. Shata means hundred years. Shata Varsha, Shata Samvatsaram Ghritam means the ghee is buried in a clay pot into the soil hundred years. Because when ghee is staying in the soil for hundred years, that much a long time, some molecular changes happen within the ghee and that ghee is rich in Ojas, it is rich in Tejas and it is rich in Prana. Because ultimately, the pure essence of Vaat Dosha is Pran, pure essence of Pitta is Tejas and Kapha is Ojas.
And at cellular level, Ojas-Tejas-Pran, they maintain cellular metabolic activity, cellular intelligence and flow of communication. Prana is a flow of communication. So at cellular level, Ojas-Tejas-Pran they are operating and enhancing the cellular life.
So this hundred years old ghee, Puran Ghritham is the best medicine for eczema, psorisis, even if you take internally, it can heal peptic ulcer, ulcerative colitis, IBS, irritable bowel syndrome, many disorders, even autoimmune diseases. This Puran Ghritam is Shreshtam Ojas Karam Param, so this promotes Ojas.
Time 36:40 Sadhguru: Is there any parallel in the medical sciences for Tejas and Ojas? Prana, they’re beginning to recognize _____ (Unclear). Dr. Vasant Lad: Correct, correct. You know, very good question.
Prana is a your neuro-electrical impulse, your neuro-electricity but Tejas is nothing but certain kind of amino acid. They work at the level of cell membrane, at the level of RNA, DNA, they are Tejas. And Ojas is the immune system. So Ojas-Tejas-Pran, these are three important factors. They maintain the life of a single cell, the single cell can live longer.
And that’s the beauty but there is no parallel. One thing is there. When liver destroys the old red blood cell and out of destruction of RBC, the hemoglobin comes out and the Heme is separated and globin part is Ojas in the liver. That’s why doctor give gamma globulin shot to prevent hepatitis. So that globulin is a very special protein, maybe resembling to the Ojas.
Tejas is amino acid, liver enzyme, because liver is the seat of five Bhootagni. Every ether, air, fire, water, earth has a Agni component. Nabas Agni – the Agni component of space, Vayave Agni – the Agni component of air which really absorb the gaseous exchange happen because of that.
Tejo Agni which is responsible for cellular metabolic activity and Aapo Agni which maintain plasma serum and Parthiv Agni is a mineral calcium, magnesium, zinc. So exactly when we study modern medicine and Ayurved, concurrently and inherently, then we will understand which part is Pran, which part is Tejas and which part is Ojas.
Sadhguru: Mhmm. In the yogic sciences, generally Ojas is seen as a nonphysical dimension of energy. If you…
because everything physical has come from the nonphysical. If you create a cocoon of nonphysical dimension of energy…
Cocoon does not mean like this.
On the cellular level, every cell has a… a little bit of nonphysical dimension, a wrap-around itself. That cell will continuously regenerate itself at a pace that is considered miraculous.
Time 39:21 Well, your recovery from anything, injury or any ailment, will be like that. Above all, first of all, you don’t get sick enough to be called sick (Laughs). Depending on how violently you live…
When I say how violently, see, you’re living a nice peaceful life. I live a violent life. I’m on full speed on a motorcycle (Both laugh). So my life is seven days of the week, three-hundred-and-sixty-five days. There’s no day, there’s no night.
You know, sometimes it’s twenty-four hours’ work, other days it’s eighteen, twenty hours of work. It’s a violent life but still I’ve not canceled a single event because I’m not well. Such a thing has not happened in the last thirty-nine years (Overlapping conversation)…
Dr. Vasant Lad: No, what you say, very beautiful…
Sadhguru: So, a certain amount of Ojas kind of puts your back always.
It doesn’t matter. It’s not that I’ve not been unwell. Well, I caught flu, I caught this, I caught that many times. But no matter what’s happening, I can still continue my activity. So if… what you said kind of interests me that Ojas is that kind of energy which is not physical in nature but we.
If you’re incubated in that always, if every cell is incubated in that always, your recovery or your ability to be beyond what physical things do to you..
. Time 40:47 Dr. Vasant Lad: Mhmm. Ayurved says that Ojas can be measured on physical level in physical term as Ojosar. Then Tejas can be measured.
Then there is a Paraojas and Aparojas. So Para is superior. Superior Ojas is Asthabindwatmakam Paramojam Rudishtitaha. So that eight drop Asthabindatwakam Ojas, the eight drop of super fine Ojas that comes to the heart and that stimulate pacemaker SA node.
Then it stimulate to the AV node and to the bundle of His, all cardiac activity are governed by that superior Ojas.
Then inferior Ojas is Ardhanjali which is half pined and that is circulating throughout the body to maintain immunological response but there is a Shaktiroop Ojas that become Aura. So if you do meditation, you are in Samadhi, then that your upper Ojas become Paraojas, Paraojas become Aura and that halo, that Aura is nothing but Ojas. But the color of the aura is Tejas and pulsation of aura, vibration of Aura is Pran. Even at the (Sounds like –Auraic?) level, Ojas-Tejas-Pran are operating in a subtle Shakti form but in a physical form, Ojas.
.. there is Ojoprakruti and Ayurved says, “A person who is very handsome, dynamic with attractive eyes and very charming personality, when he comes, there is a whole vibration.” Sadhguru: I look like a blind man (Laughter).
Vasant Lad: Yeah, yeah (Laughs). So that is called… So you fall into that category.
Your Prakruti is Ojoprakruti. So Ojas is a physical thing. Ojas can be psychological thing which is bliss, joy, happiness and Ojas can be spiritual thing which is Samadhi. Time 42:41 Sadhguru: Mhmm. So Ayurveda talks about these aspects, is it?
Dr. Vasant Lad: To some extent. _____ (Unclear) does talk about it. Sadhguru: I’ve always been so engaged with life, I never had the patience to study anything (Laughter). I’m just absolutely involved with life inside and life outside (Laughs), so I never sat down and made a study of anything.
So you must tell us, sir. You’ve spent a lifetime of study. Dr. Vasant Lad: I think your whole life is a study. Even you are driving motorbike, still you’re observing, you are learning, there is no end to the study, no end to the learning.
Learning is at every moment and that is your humbleness.
You say, “I have no time,” but you’re always in that process. Sadhguru: That’s what. Just now, yesterday night some journalist was asking me, “When you’re riding, what are you thinking about? Are you doing this, doing that?
” (Laughs) I said, “Not just when I’m riding, at any time, I’m not thinking about anything,” (Both laugh) because this whole… This is a European disease that has caught the whole world. It’s a pandemic that people think human thought is more significant than human attention.
Human attention, if it is keen enough, intense enough and sustained, it can open any door in the universe. Human thought is just a recycling of what you already know. But somewhere our education systems, borrowed from European systems, has inculcated in everybody that your thought is more important than your attention. Attention to Creator’s creation is more important to the..
Than the nonsense that you make up in your head (Both laugh). But everybody thinks you must be thinking something, then only you’re an intelligent person. Well, I don’t think much (Laughs). That’s why my face didn’t become long (Laughter).
Time 44:55 With age, people, you know, will lose their joy and they become like this. They think they’ve become serious about it. Well, I think serious is the…
seriousness is the worst ailment. Because it’s such a joke that you’re here just for a few years. Before you, thousands of years people have lived here. When you’re gone, maybe the grass will be grateful because it’s getting sustenance from you (Laughs) because you’re buried underneath. Otherwise, everybody will forget in a little bit of time and world will be fine without you.
But everybody thinks that they have become so important in this universe that they become very serious. Silly little thoughts that they’re creating have become bigger than the cosmos (Laughs). So I…
I don’t know, for me, life is about attention. How keenly attentive you are is how much you know of life because everything that needs to be created is already created. You just have to be attentive and enjoy the bounty of life that’s here, but people are trying to make up their own little world. Their idea of a world is one stupid building that they call as home and so much bank balance and four wheels parked in front of their house, which is shinier than the neigh..
. neighbor’s wheels. I mean, this is their idea of creation when there is a magnificent creation all over (Laughs). So this creation of my job, my family, my this, this, this keeps them busy and away from the Creator’s creation, which is the worst thing that can happen to you. Dr.
Vasant Lad: Absolutely.
Time 46:50 Sadhguru: So Ayurveda, if it has to become the way of the world, in… not necessarily in the form that it’s come from India, it can happen in so many different ways.
The fundamentals are right but how it finds expression in different societies could be different. If it has to happen, first and foremost thing that needs to happen is, that there must be a significance for the creation above your own creation. Till then, I don’t think people will take to Ayurveda.
Everybody’s looking for a quick fix of some kind. Dr.
Vasant Lad: Correct. And people are doing integration of Ayurved and acupuncture, Ayurved and and chiropractic, Ayurved and naturopath, and Ayurved and allopath because Ayurved is all-inclusive and it doesn’t mean that it belong to India, it can belong to anywhere. Sadhguru: Sir, sir, you’re getting me into trouble. When I said (Laughs)..
. I said, if… You know, I.
.. I spoke in the United Nations and I said, “If yoga is Hindu, gravity must be Christian.” (Laughter) So even now, the people who think they’re more Hindu than me are hitting me every day (Laughs) because they think I gave up yoga.
They don’t understand if it has to become universal, its identity has to rise.
Dr. Vasant Lad: Right, right, right (Sadhguru laughs). You know, when first I came, people are saying, “Oh, this is a Hindu medicine.” I said, “No, no.” Sadhguru: (Talks aside) Dr.
Vasant Lad: “Ayurved is not only Hindu medicine. It is for every religion, it is beyond religion.” Sadhguru: See, how can science be a cultural or a religious identity? It cannot be. Dr.
Vasant Lad: Right, that’s a limitation, yeah. Sadhguru: So goes for Ayurveda, so goes for yoga. Unless we understand this, then we will keep it cloistered as we have done for thousands of years. Why Ayurveda has not become the universal system of medicine when it was one of the oldest forms of medicine with such complexity? Over hundred thousand formulations.
Even modern pharmacopoeia doesn’t have 100,000 formulations. But it doesn’t become because a constipated approach – we’ve not stepped out and offered. So yesterday some journalist was asking me because every day they’re…
They’re on social media asking me all kinds of questions. I was standing next to an antique Coca-Cola vending machine, an old one, which is not in use right now. I was in Sedona. And I was telling this person, “Let’s see, if you go to any Indian village ten years ago, everybody had heard the word Coca-Cola but most people did not know what is yoga.” Indian villages I’m talking about, not Native American.
Indian, Indian villages, our kind of India, I’m saying (Laughs). Why is it? Simply because you’re constipated in your approach. If we try to push it, you say, “Oh, you’re marketing.” Time 50:04 If.
.. All our programs are free in the villages but we charge in the cities. “Oh, you’re business!” Arey, what’s wrong with business, I’m saying (Laughs)?
Business means somebody needs something and you decide to provide that to them. And if there is no transaction, you can’t keep it going. How long will you keep it going? It is not about personal profit, it is about making sure the activity is sustainable, isn’t it? If I run.
I did this first-two-and-a-half years when I taught. After one big experience happened, I wanted to share this. First two-and-a-half years – I’d done business for about five, five-and-a-half years by then.
First two-and-a-half years I spent all my savings and did programs and programs, free programs. Then I ran out of money. Then I went through a struggle, “What to do? Should I collect money, not collect money?” because always there’s a tradition that, you know, spiritual process you should not collect money.
Then I saw, when the fools come to a program without money, they’re behaving like they’ve gone to a cheap cinema. Halfway through, they want to get up, go out, smoke and come back. The moment you charge them, they sit there (Laughs). Dr. Vasant Lad: Ah, then it has a value.
Sadhguru: Yeah. See, the unfortunate reality.
They make a commitment, “I will be here for this ten days or whatever,” but their word has no value. The moment they pay one 5000 rupees, they will sit there. Time 51:32 Dr.
Vasant Lad: They pay… Sadhguru: So whose problem is it? Yours or mine?
Money is not my problem, it’s your problem (Dr. Lad laughs). So now we’re trying to change that. It is..
. The most valuable things should be well-marketed. Whether it is spirituality, yoga, Ayurveda, Siddha, it must be well-marketed, presented it in a way that people will appreciate and embrace, not in some archaic way that nobody wants to do it. Your idea of spirituality is nobody should do it (Few laugh), all right? Some weird thing you want to say that only some yogi who is some.
In some cave in Himalayas only does yoga. Nobody else does it because you presented it that way. It is very important it is presented.
.. if it’s well-presented, you call it marketing. I don’t see anything wrong with marketing, it must be marketed. If that’s the word you like, we will use that word.
Yes, let’s market it well, let’s sell it well.
I never think in my mind of selling anything but now everybody’s saying, “Oh, this is market, this is business.” No, I’m particularly, consciously using the word ‘sell’. Yes, I will sell yoga. It’s up to you.
They’re selling Coca Cola also, carbon dioxide they’re selling. You want to buy that or you want to buy this? Make up your mind. Because your market is in your head. What can I do?
The only place that you go to is a marketplace. Do you go to any other place? Hello (Few laugh)? The only place people want to go to is a marketplace, isn’t it? Dr.
Vasant Lad: Marketplace, right. Shopping. Sadhguru: Yes. So if that is the only place you go, that is the only place I can also be, unfortunately (Laughs). But my mind is not market.
But I’m okay whichever way it works in the world, I’m all right with it because I live in the times that I live. I don’t live at another time and be impractical about it. You know, people…
Like one day I’m in Chennai, I had to speak in some conference. It’s in a hotel and somebody’s driving and this man is a very civilized driver. He’s unfit to be in Chennai, I’m saying (Laughter), he’s driving slowly behind somebody. I said, “Just stop it.” I made him get down, I got into the ca.
.. driver’s seat and I did some aggressive driving, went there because I made this commitment, I will be never late to any event.
Then now after this some terror attacks and things, in every hotel in India, there is a security check at the gate. It’s a meaningless nonsense most of the time.
They’re just thinking the terrorists will get scared. There is just one tiny little barrier gate. If I have bombs loaded in my car, I will drive through the damn gate anyway, all right (Laughs)? That guy doesn’t have a gun, that da..
. guy is not standing with a bazooka to stop me, nothing. He’s just standing with one mirror and one whistle (Laughter). What is he going to stop a terrorist? Because it’s a law, they’ve all put up two, two guys there.
So one car went and the gate was up and I bu… burst through that because I’m going to be late. They all started whistling.
Time 54:49 I went and parked there, got out of the car, ran into the hotel.
I was there on time. I finished my conference and I came out after an hour. Some journalists were there when I ran in. The way I blasted into the.
.. I entered the portico, maybe at fifty, sixty kilometers per hour (Laughs). Then when I came out, this guy is asking, “In ancient times, yogis used to walk. You drive your own car, what kind of a yogi are you?
” Then I said, “You idiot! In ancient times, everybody was walking, not just yogis.” (Laughter) I’m saying you have these kind of things. If I must come walking, I must..
. From Coimbatore to Chennai if I come walking, I become a yogi? No, I become a walker (Laughter). I mean, these kind of restrictions we put on ourselves and not reaching valuable sciences to the world and we’re losing it. It is time Ayurveda, yoga, all these very precious sciences must reach the maximum number of people.
It’s a very good thing that our Prime Minister pushed for it and now International Yoga Day has been declared.
It is not going to achieve everything that we want but at least it’s in the consciousness of the world that yoga is legal (Laughs). Time 56:15 Dr. Vasant Lad: Absolutely. In this group, Ayurprana, Miteshbhai and Snehaben, they have so much dedication, so much love and they think like you.
They think that we should bring Ayurved to the front, so that the whole world will listen to it. So this is quite a work. It’s a big team work and as you say, this is a inspiration coming from your heart and they’re already doing this work. Thank you. Give them big hand.
It’s amazing (Applause). Sadhguru: It’s good. Is (Has?) New Mexico made marijuana legal? Not yet?
Dr. Vasant Lad: I have no idea. Is it? Sadhguru: No. Dr.
Vasant Lad: No, not yet. Sadhguru: So I’m saying marijuana… alcohol became legal, marijuana became legal, cocaine will become legal.
Time we make yoga and Ayurveda legal (Laughter). Thank you, sir. I don’t want to take too much of your time.
Dr. Vasant Lad: Thank you.
Time 57:15 Instrumental music… Time 57:35 END.